Jyxo.blog.cz na Blog.cz

Michale, zajímalo by mne, jak se díváš na metodu pastí na roboty. Tím myslím formulářové či jiné prvky, které použije (vyplní, klikne) jen robot, kdežto normální uživatel ne. Není to účinnější než vyhodnocování běžných kritérií?

A propos, větší textarea pro komentář by byla docela fajn.

[1] podle toho, že na tomto webu http://php.vrana.cz/syndikace-diskusi.php podobný systém běží a sem tam se do komentářů spam stejně dostane, tak o samospasitelný systém nejde.

I kdyby to nefungovalo na 100% tak děkuji. Mazat 200 spamů bylo na hranici mé trpelivostia zvážení toho zdali mi opravdu za to stojí

[1]: Spamoví roboti jsou o něco cílenější než běžní uživatelé (jsou programovaní na konkrétní cíl, zatímco uživatelé klikají na leccos). Tím pádem se mi zdá, že ty prvky pro roboty by byly většinou podmnožinou prvků pro lidi. Tedy bych měl strach, aby se do nastražených pastí nechytali lidé :)

Ledaže bychom dělali něco neviditelného  nebo pro past udělali zvlášť stránky - ani jedno bych ale nerad.

Snad mě jedno možné použití napadlo (považovat všechny staré články za pasti pro roboty), ale radši bych to implementoval jako jakési "šestnácté kritérium" (s poměrnou malou vahou), než jako nějaké striktní odstínění.

[4]: Co se týče prvků pro roboty, tak jde o to, že tyto prvky jsou nastylované jako neviditelné, takže normální člověk je nevidí, ale robot nepozná jestli je viditelné nebo ne a třeba skrytý checkbox zatrhne, což normální člověk nemůže udělat, protože tlačítko nevidí.

/ad 3/ Také se připojuji k Petrovi. Máme blog na Lupě a mazat někdy až stovky spamu v komentářích není zrovna můj koníček.

Takže moc díky Michale.

[5]: A proč by ten checkbox ten robot zatrhával? Tenhle postup je podle mě sázka do loterie - vždyť nevíte, jak je ten robot naprogramovaný, takže ani nevíte, zda jeho výsledkem je zatržený či nezatržený checkbox - tak podle čeho se budete rozhodovat?

Ta myšlenka pastí má nějaké opodstatnění, ale zrovna tohle provedení mi účinné nepřijde.

[2] U mě ten systém běží jen u některých článků, které evidentně zajímají roboty. Neběží všude, protože jsem si vědom i jeho stinných stránek (uživatelé bez stylů tlačítko vidí, odeslání formuláře Enterem použije první tlačítko).

[7] Já mám ve formuláři dvě tlačítka: Jsem robot a Odeslat komentář. Robot použije buď první, žádné nebo obě tlačítka najednou, člověk první tlačítko nevidí a použije druhé.

Nejucinejsi na odstaveni robotu je metoda "opis piktogram" ... inspiroval bych se u SMS brany Vodafone, kde je pomoci OCR skutecne takrka nezdolatelny. - ale zase je to trochu otrava pro uzivatele (ale oni to pochopi, a hlavne mam pocit ze uz si zvykli )

[9] Nesnáším tuto nejúčinnější metodu! Např. právě SMS brána Vodafone je možná takřka nezdolatelná pomocí OCR, ale tak v každém třetím případě i pomocí mých očí (a to nemám moc dioptrií!)

Když se robot rozhoduje automaticky, jak pozná, že do pole pro email má vyplnit email? Podle textu v okolí? Podle pořadí inputu, nebo podle atributu name/id?

Podle mě by bylo možné ho ve všech třech případech účinně mást, aniž by to mělo dopad na použitelnost nebo přístupnost.

Ale samozřejmě souhlasím s tím, že zavedení vážených kritérií pro automatické posuzování spamu, je skvělá služba pro uživatele blog.cz. Na bloguje.cz se používá dvoukrokové odesílání, a to mě pěkně štve (ale pořád míň než ty spamy).

Jiná věc je, že u konzistentních prostředí, která jsou hodně rozšířená (blogovací systémy obecně) se může vyplatit i nasazení lidské síly pro konfiguraci spamovacího robota.

Jediná účinná cesta proti spamu je podle mě právě jen analýza obsahu. Celkem by mě zajímalo, jak to přesně Jyxo dělá

Jinak pokud někoho z na vašem vlastním webu rozčilují kvanta spamu v debatě, tak se ozvěte. Sám jednu vlastní metodu (nijak neobtěžující běžné uživatele) velmi úspěšně používám na Přírodě a chtěl bych to zkusit na dalších pokusných králících

[9]I OCR od Vodafonu je možné obelhat. Nedávno jsem viděl jeden projekt, který dokázal přečíst i mnohem zapeklitější texty. Stačilo k tomu pár hodin učení...

[10] Tak to je jeden z nejcitelnejsich piktogramu na webu. Zkuste treba ten seznamacky megašum :)

[11] Vsichni roboti co znam sou psani na konkretni ucel. Tj vi ze na vsech blozich blog.cz je formular a ten je stejny. Pak uz tam jen sazi texty (nevim jesli jsou, byl to jen priklad). Nevim co pak takove BBforum, jesli ma vzdy stejne inputy (nazvy, id, atd..)

Jinak mi se moc libi ty otazky co sou na forech stranek opery. Otazky typu: je zarovna pohanena eletrinou? (ano/ne)

[13] mohl byste napsat, o ktery projekt konkretne slo?

[9]> Nejucinejsi na odstaveni robotu je metoda "opis piktogram"

A bohužel je to účinné i na odstavení některých uživatelů. Proto tohle řešení nebudeme nasazovat (nebo jen v největší nouzi).

[16] Přesně tak. Tohle je příšerná metoda jak eliminovat uživatele. Na MSN jsem byl schopen tím projít až při použití slepecké (voice) verze.

A taková zkušenost mi stačí abych se nesnažil někde něco psát jenom když uvidím, že bych musel nějaký takový "text" luštit....

pRo začátek by stačilo aby z jedné IP bylo možné zadat jen třeba 10 příspěvků a u dalších ať klidně vyleze "opis piktogram" :)))

Když máme bayesovské filtry na emaily, proč je nenasadit i na komentáře? Udělá se nějaký fork, SpamAssassin4Comments, a bude :)

Bayesovský filtr se může učit, takže když někde proleze spam, uživatelé by mohli mít možnost kliknout na "nahlásit spam", takto označený komentář by šel k adminovi, a ten by to buď odklepnul nebo ne... a příště by takovýto text neprošel...

takový píčoviny!!:(

btw. bude nekdy mozne cokoli co jde vytvorit taky smazat/editovat (napriklad odkazy / oblibene stranky)? a co vkladani znacek script, slo by je povolit (napriklad jen kdyz si explicitne uzivatel rekne), a vubec co se chysta noveho?

shortys-sorry.blog.cz my okopiroval články např.:Adobe reader.... .moje stranky www.vztah.blog.cz

LEHCE OFFTOPIC:

dobrý den, přetížení serveruje čím dál tím častější. na jednu stranu chápu, že když je blog.cz bezplatná služba, nemusela bych na tyhle mouchy upozorňovat. na druhou stranu - je řešení někde v dohlednu?

díky.

zajimalo by me jak se tam davaji videa a mp3 napis na email a prohlidni si muj blog dik moc zatim zdary

Lidi, pouzivam graficky kod "piktogram", blokovani IP adres, ale stejne to nejede na 100%.

Situace se ma vetsinou tak, ze roboti stridaji proxy servery jako ponozky, tudiz varianta odchytu IP adresy mizi v nesplnene dali. Piktogram je ucinna vecicka, avsak jak jiz bylo zmineno, aby OCR ctecky nerozpoznaly kod, je treba zneprijemnit uzivatelum praci s opsanim kodu.

Kdyby nekdo na neco radneho prisel, dejte vedet, diky a hodne zdaru lidi!

hoj,někdo mi dal na blog spam poradte jak to mam blokovat?

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